Texas Monthly Talks
Joel Osteen
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There are times when everybody does, but I’m pretty good at switching over and realizing what’s bothering me. I do what I tell people to do: If I get up and I find that I’m in a bad mood, I get my mind off myself. I think, “I’ve got this problem to deal with, but I’m going to leave that and go help somebody else.” I’ll pick up the phone and call somebody and encourage them. Or I’ll think of something I can be grateful for. I’ll look at my kids. You know, we’re healthy. God has given us the Compaq Center. I try to turn it around.
Another thing I know you’re grateful for is your relationship with your wife. Is it true that you and Victoria had your first date in this building, at a Rockets game?
It’s a true story. I met her at her mother’s jewelry store, and I invited her to a Rockets game. We had season tickets. That was our first date. Right there in section 105. I know where the chairs are and everything.
I’d hope you’d have put a plaque up.
I know. We should. It’s just amazing. If you had told us eight years ago, when my father died, that one, I was going to be a minister, and two, we would be at the Compaq Center with influence in the world? We never would have believed it. I tell people that God’s dream for our lives is bigger than our own.
I want to ask you about a criticism you mentioned earlier: that you won’t preach against sin, that you refuse to be judgmental of people.
It goes back to who I am. There’s a scripture that talks about how it’s the goodness of God that leads people to repent. When I’m preaching about God being good, he’s for you. You may not be living right or doing what you know you should be doing, but there’s a God of mercy who will forgive you if you’re willing to change. I see more people respond to that than being beaten down and told, “Don’t do this, don’t do this, don’t do this.” Still, I can’t be critical of other ministers. I was watching Billy Graham two nights ago, and his message was very much “Don’t do this.” He’s a friend of mine; he’s one of my mentors. That is what he was called to do. He’s an evangelist leading people to Christ.
You consider yourself an evangelist as well, don’t you?
I do in a sense. The way I grew up, if you were an evangelist, the main message was salvation. “Here’s how you need to get to heaven: You need to believe that Jesus is your Lord.” I believe that and I preach that, but not every weekend. I’ve got to teach people how to live their lives.
Another criticism I’ve heard is that you don’t display the cross in your church.
When my dad founded the church almost fifty years ago, he never had a cross. He always used a map, and then it became a globe; he was very missions oriented, interested in helping people all over the world. We continued on with it because it was our mark. It wasn’t an intentional slight. We’re Christians. We believe in the cross. This has to do with the tradition of our ministry and our church.
Is there any sort of person who might have sinned to whom you would say, “We don’t agree with you or support your lifestyle. We don’t welcome you into this church”?
No, there wouldn’t be anybody. It’s open to anybody of any faith. That’s what the church should be.
In any circumstance?
In any circumstance. I mean, unless it was a legal situation.
I want to ask you about your sister’s church [High Point Church, in Arlington], which had planned to host a memorial service for a soldier, a veteran of the first Gulf War, but reversed course when the soldier turned out to have been gay. A lot of people have asked if Joel Osteen, in a similar situation, would have allowed the service to go on at his church.
We have buried and honored anybody from any walk of life, and in defense of [my sister and her husband], they have too. [The family] wanted their own officiants to come in there, their own pastors to come in there, and [my sister and her husband] didn’t feel comfortable with turning their church over to somebody they didn’t know. That’s the difference. My brother-in-law and my sister would do anybody’s funeral in the world.
Have they previously done memorial services or funerals for homosexuals in the church?
I have not asked, but I would almost guarantee you that they have.
Have you done services for gay people in your church?
Yes.
So in a similar situation, if the family had come to you and asked for its own officiants at your church, your policy also may have been to turn that down? It has to be your officiants?
It does.
It’s a management issue more than a moral issue.
Right.
If the family had not asked for its own officiants and said, “We would like to have the service here . . .”?
We would do it. I’d take anybody.
Where do you come down on the question of lifestyle determining whether you get to go to heaven? I seem to remember some controversy surrounding something you said on Larry King’s show two years back.
I thought it was misunderstood. What I was saying to Larry King, and I’ll say it here, is that I can’t be the one deciding who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. God has got to judge people’s hearts. But what I in my Christian faith believe, and what all Christians believe, is that Christ died for our sins and that we have to receive his forgiveness. That’s our way to heaven. That’s the only guarantee I see in the Scripture.
But what if you’re a member of another faith? What options are there for people who don’t believe in Christ?
I go back to the foundation of the Christian faith, which is that Christ is the way to heaven.
You mentioned Billy Graham a few moments ago. Recently a story about the Reverend Graham’s relationship with presidents was on the cover of Time magazine, and I thought of you. I thought of the last time we were together, when you told me, “I steer clear of politics. That’s not my place.” Do you still feel that way two years later?
Yeah, I do. I stand by the idea that I shouldn’t get political, because it divides the people I’m trying to reach. I’m very open to talking with leaders. I’m honored to do it. I’ve been able to talk with, but not advise, President Clinton, who was very kind to me. The first President Bush was very kind to me as well. [Speaker of the U.S. House] Nancy Pelosi came through. I want to meet the presidential candidates. But I don’t get involved in policy.
What happens next for you? Let’s assume the new book, with its initial printing of three million copies, is a success. Do you have more books in you? How else do you get the message out?
I don’t know what’s next. We’ll see what happens. There are some opportunities that we’re looking at in other media.
Last night I was on the iTunes store, and what should I find among the ten most popular podcasts but the “Joel Osteen Audio Podcast.” I thought to myself, “Could John Osteen have imagined such a thing?”
He couldn’t have imagined it. It’s a great day that we live in. When I was growing up, I was taught that TV programming is the thing. But podcasts and the Internet have opened my mind. They told me my podcast was in the top ten, and I said, “Among religious stuff?”
No, top ten, period. People on the elliptical machine want to listen to you telling them to keep going.
I hear that all the time.
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