A Conversation With Billy Joe Shaver

The outlaw-country legend on his recent acquittal, his songs, and his friendship with Willie Nelson.

Interview by Michael Hoinski

May 2011

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What were you doing with a gun the night of the shooting? I’m a deputy sheriff in Waco. I had the right to carry a pistol.

Wanda and I had been goin’ around takin’ pictures in graveyards of these angels and things. I had a spiritual album comin’ out called Everybody’s Brother, and we were lookin’ for pictures.

And we were comin’ down the road, and there’s Papa Java’s—or whatever it is. I said, “I never been in there.” And she said, “Well, I hadn’t either, but I need a beer.”

I got in there, and she went over to this other table. She had never played Texas Hold ’Em, and they were playin’ that over there.

I had a beer poured into a paper cup. And [Billy Coker] comes in, and he claims he knows me and all this stuff. And he picks me up—I never had nobody touch me like that—and grabs me by the shoulders, and says, “You sit over here.” And I thought, “Oh man.”

Big guy? Yeah, built like a fire hydrant. About fifty. Then he comes out with this flip blade—long, serrated blade—and he starts stirrin’ everybody’s drink. And he’s tryin’ to set me over by this gal that came in with him. And then Wanda came over and sat by him.

Was he hopped up on something? Well, he had a big bottle of whiskey, and he tried to pour some in my beer. I said, “No, man, I’m not even drinkin’ this beer.”

He and Wanda were talkin’. Wanda’s last husband [Don Phillips, Coker’s cousin] had shot and killed himself, and I could see they were gettin’ in an argument about it.

I put my hand on Wanda’s shoulder, and I said, “Wanda, we need to leave.” And that guy turns around, with his knife in his hand, and he says, “Why don’t you just shut the f— up?”

It’s almost like he knew you were there. Yeah, I think it was all kind of set up. It felt like it was.

And so I come back up to him and said, “Man, all this could be settled if you’ll just apologize. We can all have some more fun.” And he said, “No.” He was goin’ to kill me.

He starts out the back door—we both assumed that we’re gonna take it outside. I figured if he got out there first, he’d probably come up beside my head with a two-by-four, or shoot me, or knife me, or somethin’. So I went out there as quick as I could. I looked out and saw him inside walkin’ toward one of the fellas that claimed he was out back during the trial—which wasn’t true. I saw him hand him a pistol, and I thought, “I gotta get some protection.”

Wanda’s car happened to be parked right there, so I got my pistol, a little bitty thing, a little .22. I had time to put the shells in it and put it in my left pocket (I’m right-handed) and go over there. He still hadn’t come out that damn door. And I thought, “Hallelujah, he’s changed his mind.”

But he comes out the door. And he does like that at me [Shaver makes a jabbing motion with his hand]. I assumed it was a gun. He stomped at me. And I came out of my pocket with my gun, and I didn’t hesitate. I just went pow. It was a lucky shot—hit him right in the jaw.

What did you do after that? I said, “You better come on, Wanda, if you’re goin’ with me.” I said, “Don’t go back in there. They’ll hurt you.” The whole place was on his side. They all knew him. We happened into a neighborhood bar, where everybody knew everybody. I knew what was goin’ on. I was raised in honky-tonks. The woman behind the bar had already told me that she had a hog-leg [a sawed-off shotgun] and wasn’t afraid to use it. So Wanda got in the car with me, and we left.

Where did you go? We came back here to the house. And I got my truck. Wanda said, “I wanna go with you.” And I said, “No, you ain’t goin’ with me nowhere.” I wasn’t sure about her, then. Paranoia was settin’ in real big time. So I got in my truck and drove all the way to Mexia, where I have a lot of friends. I checked into a cheap motel and spent the night.

If it’s self-defense, why not go turn yourself in? I wasn’t gonna do that that night.

Why not? Because that bunch out there was lookin’ for me. And they knew the law and everything.

What do you think about the song Dale Watson wrote about the shooting? That sorry devil. He’s a friend of mine. He called me up and said, “Billy, you care if I write a song about that?” I said, “I really rather you wouldn’t. But if you just must, go ahead.” And he said, “Well, I’ve already wrote it.” And he said, “You wanna hear the title?” And I said, “No, I don’t.” And he said, “I’m gonna have to tell ya anyway.” He said, “It’s ‘Where Do You Want It?’” I told him, “I never said that.” And he said, “Yeah, but it sounds so good in the song.” It hurt me real bad. Dale knocked me down and stomped on me.

Have you ever shot anyone before? I had never shot anyone before. But that ol’ boy was too much for me.

Would you do it the same again? I’d shoot him again if I had to. I mean, that’s John Wayne.

Are you afraid of death? Livin’ is hard. It’d be easy to die. I can’t do it to myself, ’cause that’s against everything I stand for. And all these songs—all that hard work I did—would be just goin’ down the drain. So I’m probably gonna live forever, whether I want to or not.

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