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The Night Trump Unraveled

Midway through the first presidential debate, the Republican nominee’s performance started to deteriorate.

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Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump reacts during the Presidential Debate at Hofstra University on September 26 in Hempstead, New York.
Photo by Win McNamee/Getty Images

Whenever possible, I like to watch presidential debates with partisans—or, during primaries, with people supporting a specific candidate—to observe their reactions in real time, before the conventional wisdom can harden. Last night, then, I joined Texas Democrats at Scholz Garten in downtown Austin, and found an interesting pattern among the people I spoke with after the debate concluded: though they all felt that Hillary Clinton had won, as one might expect the blue team to do, they remained nearly as anxious as they were prior to the debate. It’s a measure of how strange this entire election cycle has been, I suppose, that so many Americans, on both sides, feel uncertain about their own perceptions, and everyone else’s.

In any case, the conventional wisdom has now crystallized, and Democrats and anti-Trump conservatives can be relieved. It will take a few days for state and national polls to capture any shift in the race that may result from the debate, but polls taken last night show that a majority of Americans saw Clinton as the winner. Public Policy Polling highlights one finding of particular interest, given that Clinton has struggled to consolidate young Democrats behind her candidacy after an unexpectedly ferocious primary challenge from Bernie Sanders:

Perhaps most important for Clinton is that among young voters, who she has under performed with, 63% think she won the debate to only 24% for Trump. 47% of voters in that age group said the debate tonight made them more likely to vote for her, to only 10% who say it made them less likely to vote for her. For Trump with that group on the other hand, only 23% said the debate made them more likely to vote for him to 39% who said it made them less likely to.

Making matters worse, for Trump, is the general consensus that he performed relatively well during the first half hour or so of the debate, only to deteriorate badly by the end. I personally didn’t think he did particularly well during the first half hour, either, which was nominally focused on economic issues. That might be a reflection of my own biases in favor of NAFTA, which he vigorously assailed, but his repeated interruptions and interjections during Clinton’s responses struck me as yet another measure of the man’s lack of impulse control. In any case, we can all agree that he deteriorated badly by the end. David French, at the National Review, suggests an inflection point that strikes me as plausible:

But Hillary apparently did her homework, and if there’s one thing we learned during the primary, it’s that Trump hates it when debaters attack his wealth or his business. So she went there. She smacked his wealth and business success, and he just couldn’t help himself. For several agonizing minutes, he threw a wall of words at viewers while she just watched — with a satisfied, frozen smile. By the end of the debate he was all over the place — on the defensive on multiple fronts.

Arthur Lupia, a political scientist at the University of Michigan, highlighted the same stretch of the debate when Thomas Edsall, at the New York Times, asked for his review of the evening: questioning why Trump has refused to release his tax returns was “brilliant stagecraft,” Lupia wrote, because it “set the stage for days of questioning about the topic.” The same is true on other issues, too, as we saw this morning, when Trump called into Fox and Friends and doubled down on his attacks on Alicia Machado, a former Miss Universe. As Clinton observed last night, Trump had attacked Machado in personal and racist terms, referring to her as “Miss Piggy” and “Miss Housekeeping”; this morning, Trump argued that he was right to do so: “She gained a massive amount of weight.” Last night, at a moment when competence was crucial to his hopes of becoming president, Trump was unable to stop himself from unraveling in full view of the nation. And if this morning’s efforts are his idea of damage control—well, his surrogate, Rudy Giuliani, is right: it would probably be wise for him to skip the next two debates.

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  • WUSRPH

    As much as it would probably be to Trump’s benefit to again avoid getting on the same stage with Hillary, he cannot do so. Imagine the damage to his ego and to his chances if the Democrats could taunt him for being afraid of a little woman. I do expect that we will hear a lot more of the “it’s all rigged” talk in the coming days.

    • Aslan

      He whined about how mean Hillary’s commercials about him are… and her commercials are nothing but quotes from him!

      • Erica Grieder

        lol yes that’s an excellent point

      • José

        Over the past few election cycles I have noticed a district trend in negative campaign advertising. Republicans hype things that their opponents didn’t actually say or they take it wildly out of context, and Democrats merely repeat what the other side really did say and mean. Romney was a smart guy but he was hurt by the release of his “47%” comments that were intended for his donors alone. See also Christine O’Donnell, Todd Akins, and Sharron Angle. And Ann Richards might never have been Governor of Texas if the campaign staff for Clayton Williams had kept their guy safely locked up and out of sight and sound for the last month before the 1990 election.

      • squidpuppy

        Ha ha ha. you’re right!

    • Beerman

      I watched some Fox News this afternoon and the “it’s all rigged” commentary has already started.

    • squidpuppy

      I’m sure Mr Trump will debate again. His ego will not let him skip debates. And he is, in his opinion, so good at debates.

  • Rules of Blazon

    What did they put in the beer at Scholz’s last night? I mean! Just not possible for any Dem to be the least bit anxious after watching that total ass-whupping. She was always gonna win, but now she’s gonna win with extra cheese. Or something. You know what I’m saying.

    And I’m right with you that he sucked in the first 30 minutes too.

    • Aslan

      She eviscerated him. Not only did he – once again – show himself to be a blustering idiot, but that sniffling? Trump trolls have been plastering social media with their theories that Hillary is dying. She looked in fine fettle to me last night. But Trump’s sniffling? Twitter claims it’s cocaine. Find it hard to disagree with that. It would explain the all-night tweeting.

      • Beerman

        I have repeated several times, on this blog, that whatever he consumes to get worked up for his rallies doesn’t come in an aluminum can, longneck and/or keg? The sinister look in his eyes, bloated skin and mood swings are very telling. “People are telling me.” BELIEVE ME…BELIEVE ME…I GUARANTEE…I GUARANTEE!

        • Aslan

          The GOP has spent the past couple of months inventing maladies for Hillary, screaming that she needs a neurological examination. It’s pretty obvious from last night, Trump needs to be drug tested. The Democrats play so nice. They need to take a leaf out of the GOP’s playbook.

        • John Bernard Books

          what are you smoking?

          • BCinBCS

            JBB: “what are you smoking?

            Hell JBB, what is Trump snorting?

          • John Bernard Books

            It ain’t the kool aide you’ve been told to drink

          • kindness

            That’s supposed to hurt? That’s supposed to be a witty come back?

            Maybe Trump is the right man for you.

          • John Bernard Books

            ahhh fresh meat a newbie…..

      • squidpuppy

        Would explain many many things

        • Sacagewea

          True, but then why is he fat?

    • squidpuppy

      I hope you are right.

      The districts are gerrymandered and voter suppression strategy has been put in place all over the country over the last decade so that is why I’m concerned.

  • José

    I can fully understand why Clinton supporters remain anxious despite the one-sided nature if the debate. The mere fact that Trump is still competitive in this race indicates that a huge portion of the electorate is basing its decision on factors other that facts and reason. They’re delusional, and dangerously so. They castigate Clinton for being untruthful…and then support Trump? They emphasize family values and church membership, and then Trump? They care about the national debt, small government, a strong national economy, honesty in business dealings, respect and fairness for the middle class, and so forth. And despite what issues they identify as being important they plan to vote for a guy who either (a) has a track record that is pretty much the exact opposite, or (2) proposes doing stuff that promises to demolish those things. It makes no sense whatsoever. They are crazy people with the means to cause immense damage. That’s scary.

    • Rules of Blazon

      If even 51% of the electorate based their decisions only on facts and reason, there wouldn’t be any Republicans in office anywhere.

      • John Bernard Books

        Exactly, 51% of voters have said no more dems in Texas for more than 20 years.

        • kindness

          Look where it’s gotten Texas and I say this as a resident of California.

          • John Bernard Books

            Exactly….
            Many flee their socialist countries and sneak into America. Many liberals leave their dying cities and states and move to Texa.

          • Kenji

            What a pantload. Try to cite even one example, you pitiful bag of gas!

    • John Bernard Books

      Trump is still competitive because Hilary is that bad of a candidate…..time for you to wake up and smell the coffee, if you can.

      • squidpuppy

        It is the fact that HRC has been the target of the right wing smear campaigns (because she is a threat) and some of that constant noise has damaged her brand. Even tho most to all of the allegations are B/S and/or she has been thoroughly exonerated. It still has damaged her reputation. HRC is bright, educated, with solid record of experience appropriate to the office she seeks. There is no one more qualified who is running currently.

        I voted for Bernie in the primary to attempt to push her to the left as she is a centrist and even more hawkish than Obama.

        • texasace00

          exactly

        • Sacagewea

          She is a transformative figure, just like Obama. Conservatives by their very nature dislike change.

      • texasace00

        Hillary is only a bad candidate because stupid people listen to FOX News and base their judgement on what they tell them. The GOP never does a good job, but as soon as they lose POTUS they suddenly have all the right answers. The only thing the GOP is good at is bashing Democrats for getting elected to clean up their mess. Bush practically destroyed our country, GOP lost POTUS and has spent 8 years obstructing with an all out media attack on any Democrat that threatens to keep POTUS after Obama

        • Marianne Martinez

          Hillary is a bad candidate because she is a serial criminal. she has sold out the United States. She was at fault for Bengazi. Never accomplised a thing while in the Senate. and she defended the rapist of a 12 year old , got him off and then laughed about it. Hillary is a sociopath. Case closed!!!

          • BCinBCS

            Marianne, Marianne, does anyone on the right ever bother to check the accuracy of the outlandish stories that they are told?

            Well, I did.

            Hillary Rodham was assigned the case of a man who had been accused of raping a distant relative. She did not want the case and asked the judge to be recused. He declined her request. Error #1 – she did not volunteer as some accuse her (but not Marianne, in this instance).

            The defendant took a plea to a lesser charge after Clinton poked holes in the prosecutions case. The man got one year in jail and four years of probation. Error #2 – Hillary did not get him off.

            In the recorded interview about the case, she laughed a total of three time about various aspects of the case, such as the unreliability of polygraph tests, but never about her success in the case. Error #3 – Hillary did not laugh about getting the man off.

            The full investigation of this accusation can be found at:
            http://www.factcheck.org/2016/06/clintons-1975-rape-case/

            As for your other statements, Marianne, they have been discussed and answered ad nauseam.

    • squidpuppy

      Totally nailed it ^

  • John Bernard Books

    Watching dems whistling by the graveyard….Hillary is a terrible candidate.
    She will lose again and hopefully that will be the end of the Clintons.

    • AlmostNormalTexan

      You’re the one who kept telling us Obama would lose to Perry/Gingrich.

      Sorry JBB, there just aren’t enough angry old white people in this country to outvote the rest of us anymore.

      • John Bernard Books

        I don’t worry about angry liberals out voting whitey, I worry about your dead friends…..

  • Jerry Patterson

    I grew up with East Texas roots. I was prejudiced. When I joined the Marine Corps in 1966, I served with folks I had previously held in very low esteem and I found that Yankees were just like me-they just talked funny. Trump has rekindled my dislike for Yankees-at least New York Yankees. Hes uncouth, arrogant, disrespectful to Ladies and an all around ass. JP

    • Beerman

      AMEN…..Mr. Patterson.

    • BCinBCS

      Agree with you completely on this.
      Even though you and I are on opposite sides of the political divide, I respect your opinions and I really wish that you would comment more often.

      • AlmostNormalTexan

        I wish he’d primary Dan Patrick in 2018.

        • BCinBCS

          I’d donate to that cause.

          • Rules of Blazon

            Primary’d be a waste of time, he knows that. He needs to join team blue. Like, if we had a draft, I’d take him maybe as high as the third round. And that ain’t no faint praise.

          • squidpuppy

            JP could never be on team blue. Sorry. However. I’m kind of shocked that the RNC would be so weak, fragmented, broken as to allow this man, Mr Trump to be chosen as their candidate

          • Rules of Blazon

            Dafuh? The Republicans could not have picked a more representative candidate. Trump is the consummate Republican. Every single elected Republican official in Texas has the exact same repellent core beliefs and priorities as Trump.

          • Gunslinger

            Ehh…not entirely true. They don’t ALL share the same core beliefs and priorities. It’s just that those who have their own beliefs simply refuse to act on them or share them due to self preservation – or – those same people will adopt Trumps beliefs anyway despite their own cognitive dissonance…also for reasons of self preservation.

          • Rules of Blazon

            Distinctions without differences.

          • Gunslinger

            True indeed, sir.

      • squidpuppy

        JP could never be on team blue. Sorry. However. I’m kind of shocked that the RNC would be so weak, fragmented, broken as to allow this man, Mr Trump to be chosen as their candidate for POTUS.

    • JR

      I’m a “Yankee” with deep Texan roots and believe me, I am not fond of some New Yorkers, particularly Donald J. Trump. Harshness and lack of couth are not positive traits. That man is every woman’s nightmare (except for Golddiggers, that is).

      • texasace00

        I’m now a Texan with deep Yankee roots. I am not fond of some Texans, I find them uneducated, opinionated, and hypocritical.

        • JR

          Yup, there is that, too, but I see those traits everywhere I’ve lived. The uneducated, opinionated and hypocritical are in every state in the union and every country in the world. I just don’t have to regularly deal with them if I don’t care to.

        • wessexmom

          Well, I’m a 5th gen Texan who lived in NYC for much of my twenties and Donald Trump is as uneducated (I demand to see HIS GRADES!) opinionated and hypocritical as they come. He’s the extreme NYC version of a hick in the form of an obnoxious thick-necked garish bully.

    • John Bernard Books

      JP you should be smart enough to realize you just described Hilary to a tee……

      • Kenji

        You should be smart enough to know you just made a fool of yourself—but then, if you knew that already, you’d be a much better person.

    • John Johnson

      I look forward to your description of Hillary.

      I guess we all have to decide which warts are the biggest turn-off’s.

      “Uncouth, arrogant, distespectful, and an all-around ass” don’t rank quite as high on my list as the shortcomings I compiled on her. There is an evil about her in my mind; I just consider Trump buffoonish.

      • WUSRPH

        So what we need for a president is a buffoon? Based on your comments there
        Is no way you can justify your voting for either of them.

        • John Johnson

          I used “buffoon” in the slang sense…as in an “uncool person, jerk, asshole”.

          This has not precluded hundreds of others from serving in public office.

          • Rules of Blazon

            Looking at you, Matt Krause

    • texasace00

      I grew up in Philly and New York and your comment has rekindled my dislike for East Texans who think they are better than everyone else, for no particular reason other than to ‘dislike’ anyone different, like Yankee’s, Latino’s, and anybody non-christian and nonwhite.

      • Sacagewea

        My husband’s parents were New Yorkers. My FIL was from Brooklyn. My MIL was from upstate near the Canadian border. They were fine people from whom I learned a lot and who I respected, although I didn’t share many of their political views.

        Folks from NYC talk fast and refuse to take any wooden nickels. Their courage and resilience after 9/11 was a lesson for us all, Texans included.

        I have several ancestors who owned slaves and who fought for the Confederacy, so I don’t hate southerners.

        Please drop the “Yankee” shtick. We are all Americans.

    • wessexmom

      I despise Trump. I also despise Louie Gohmert, who reps the East TX congressional district where my mother grew up and where I spent many happy years as a child visiting my grandparents. Are you proud of him?

  • Sky Mirror

    Donald Trump showed he does not have the stamina to be President of the United States. He had to lean on the podium to hold himself up at the end.

  • dpcesq

    The primary reason I am voting for Hillary is that Trump is the alternative. He is an ignorant, arrogant, racist, mysogynistic, lying, stealing bully with no impulse control. He simply CAN’T be President. And since either he or Hillary will be the next President, you can’t weasel out and vote for someone else. Ask the Florida voters who went for Ralph Nader in 2000 if they’d do it over.

    • DavidD

      Gore lost the election.He didn’t even carry his own state.He needs to take responsibility for that and so does the Democratic Party which now has nominated a candidate they worry can’t beat a pathological driven malignant narcissist .
      Trump is a paper tiger,a legend in his own mind .Even if elected he won’t be able to govern .Paper burns and every body in Washington has several lighters.

      • squidpuppy

        A Trump administration would be controlled by Mr Trump’s advisors, neo cons and the Koch bros. Who know who else? Russian Hackers Inc. too probably if you believe half the stories. Trump himself is clueless. ..Learns all he knows about policy from watching cable news. So I’d look to his cabinet picks for how he would “govern” much as GW Bush presidency was widely viewed as a Cheney administration.

        • Banjofoot

          The most overheard phrase in the George W. Bush white house was “George, could you get us some more coffee?”

      • space2k

        Gore conceded gracefully and urged his followers to do the same. Some did, some didn’t, but it wasn’t Gore’s fault. It will be interesting to contrast that with Trump’s response when he loses, and how the media will falsely claim that both sides do it.

        PS: Trump will lose his home state.

      • texasace00

        Thank you, makes my day knowing there’s at least one smart, informed person out there. I should know, I worked for Ralph for over 12 years, Gore lost it all on his own

    • John Bernard Books

      You’re voting for Hillary for 1 of 2 reasons.
      1 you were told to
      or
      2 she’ll be the first woman prez

      • squidpuppy

        No. She is very strong on all the qualities a president needs. If you put a man’s name on her resume and education and work experience you would see that she’s very well qualified.

        • John Bernard Books

          She’s a liar and a fraud…..

      • Kenji

        No, you are simply wrong on every count and more. But you’ve probably heard that a lot over the years. Trump is both a buffoon and a monster; anyone who doesn’t recoil from him has given up at least some part of being human.

    • donuthin2

      Pretty much where I am and I agree with everything you say except for the implication in the last sentence.

    • squidpuppy

      For reals.

    • texasace00

      Wrong, 8 million Democrats switched and voted Bush, i’s not Nader’s fault, don’t believe what they feed the sheep. Why am I so sure? I was a high level Nader staff member in 2000, 2004, 2008 generals, not to mention Florida AG ruling against the chad fiasco, then the GOP plants the Nader blame to deflect

  • BCinBCS

    The point that doesn’t seem to be getting the attention that I think that it deserves is, as I wrote in the “Showdown at Eight O’Clock” posting, the time that Trump interrupted Hillary when she was attacking him for not releasing his taxes. She was bringing up the possibility that he wouldn’t because his taxes might show that he paid no income tax. He couldn’t resist blurting out: “That makes me smart.”, thus confirming that he doesn’t pay income tax. It bothers me to know that I am paying taxes to support someone who should easily be supporting himself. (I guess he is also part of the 47%.)

    • John Bernard Books

      you are so gullible
      “Clinton lied about Donald Trump’s federal income tax payments
      Clinton has claimed several times while on the campaign trail that Trump pays no federal income taxes. Sound familiar? It should. That same claim was made four years ago against then-Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, and it’s just as false now as it was then.”

      • BCinBCS

        If the claim is false JBB, I know a simple way that Trump can prove it.

        • BCinBCS

          Just read this quote by Trump to Dana Bash about an hour after the debate:

          “Dana Bash (CNN): “My question for you is, first of all, it sounds like you admitted that you hadn’t paid federal taxes and that that was smart. Is that what you meant to say?

          Trump: “No, I didn’t say that at all.”

          I’d like to say something about this statement but I’m speechless.

          • John Bernard Books

            No he didn’t say that Clinton did. He said that not paying taxes is smart.
            Harry Reid says its voluntary…so feel free to pay more taxes.

          • squidpuppy

            This is not about Harry Reid.

          • John Bernard Books

            It about how dems lie……did you know paying taxes is voluntary?

          • Kenji

            You must be the dullest man alive—assuming you’re alive and not some Putin robot.

          • BCinBCS

            I’ve said time after time that he simply is an answer-bot vacuuming and reposting right-wing talking points. Unfortunately his software is not sophisticated enough to pass the Turing Test.

  • BCinBCS

    I’ve been reading other blogs and learned that Trump supposedly said that at the next debate “the gloves come off”. Assuming that he decides to show at the next debate, that guarantees I’ll be watching. (With a huuuuuge bucket of popcorn.)

    • José

      Then we get to see those famously tiny hands. Delicate, manicured, uncalloused hands.

      • Erica Grieder

        Hahahaha yes. Excellent point!

    • squidpuppy

      Popcorn for me too. He will bring up Monica Lewinsky and HRC will brush it off like a tiny piece of lint on her pantsuit.

      • Sacagewea

        She COULD bring up Trump’s many adulteries, but then she loses the moral high ground.

  • John Bernard Books

    How did we ever survive without dems like the Clintons to take care of us?
    No thanks we Texans don’t want to be like Detroit, or Philly, or Chicago or Arkansas.

  • nickthap

    Trump’s been race-baiting for years. Look at the central park joggers case for just one example.

    • squidpuppy

      Yes. He is on the record. His proposals seem to create a police state for everyone but WASPs.

      His economic proposals create a underfunded more disfunctional govt.
      And a larger wealth/income gap…

      That in my view doesn’t begin to acknowledge much less address the issues the country faces.

      He keeps saying we don’t have a country .. but we do.

  • BCinBCS

    I don’t particularly like piling-on but this was too salient to not post:
    .
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3e7275c9678ec7838594b10161f586a3c327f6b7a3a3e319970bfd3d523f9f35.jpg

  • BCinBCS

    I mentioned in the comments of Erica’s previous article that Trump has been blaming his debate loss partially on a problem with his microphone. I have been doing some reading and a commenter or two have concluded that he may be saying this as compensation for his loss but also because he actually believes that it occurred. They postulate that since the debate audience was told to remain silent, Trump didn’t know if he was doing well, thus contributing to his second-half melt-down. He may have believed that since the audience was quiet, they couldn’t hear what he was saying.

    Of course anyone watching the debate, including the Trump staff knows that everyone was able to hear everything he was saying (and sniffing). If that wasn’t enough for him, I noticed that in the picture showing Trump during the debate at the top of this article he was wearing a lapel microphone, so he was double-miked, essentially belt and suspenders.

    • WUSRPH

      He clearly needs feedback from an audience whose reaction boosts his ego. I expect that he will pack it in the next debate with cheerers and screamers to make it look as he is winning.

      • Shelly H.

        Except he can’t do that. He does not have the power to change the rules to allow that to happen. There was one time where the audience started to cheer and another where they were going to boo and the moderator shut it down both times as he should have.

        He may demand that the rules be changed or he won’t participate. Either way he loses. It’s like his refusal to be interviewed by Mark Cuban. He’s a bully and a coward who only wins when he has rigged the system to guarantee his win. If he is unable to get the conditions where he and only he, will win then it is obviously rigged against him.

    • José

      A good leader will admit hard truths and take responsibility for his/her shortcomings and failures. Trump is utterly incapable of either of these.

      Compare. Four years ago President Obama was lackluster in his first debate with Romney. He didn’t make excuses even though there was a compelling explanation, the fact that he was busy being President while preparing for the debate! If Trump wants to succeed Obama he literally had no bigger job the last few months than to get ready for the most important night in the election cycle, a one-on-one face off with his opponent in front of 80 million viewers. He failed, it was his fault, and now he’s blaming others. America cannot accept such incompetence and immaturity.

      • DragonMama

        There’s another excuse that Obama doesn’t make for his poor performance in his 1st debate against Romney – it was his & Michelle’s 20th anniversary that day. There are several ways of interpreting his distraction, some bawdier than others. 😉 Perhaps he over-did it celebrating early the night before?

        • José

          Didn’t know that! Thanks. If Mr. Obama decided that it was important to devote a little of his precious time to celebrate the special day with Michelle he made a good decision. She’s quite a gal.

    • Shelly H.

      Yes, both were double-miked and now the people that will make up anything to undermine Clinton are freaking out about seeing the transmitter and wire outline under Clinton’s suit. ZOMG! LOOK! that’s how she didn’t cough, how she knew all that information, etc.

      Any excuse to explain how the system is rigged against him since he doesn’t know how to compete in a fair competition.

      • Beerman

        Unbelievable, Trump’s surrogate spokespersons are on the media outlets this morning saying that Trump held back in the debate to let HRC use up all of her “ammunition” and that she did that, and now he will “really unload” on her in the next two debates.

        Wow, now that is a real winning strategy!

        BELIEVE ME…BELIEVE ME…

        • José

          The thing I can’t fathom is that Trump actually wants to raise a fuss about Bill Clinton’s infidelities.

          Now, setting aside for the moment that Bill ain’t on the ticket this time, that still seems like an awfully dumb move, even for Trump. Does he really think that his own record of sexual misdeeds will be ignored? Three marriages, two divorces (so far) where adultery was alleged, numerous reports of mistresses and casual sex outside of marriage, an ongoing accusation and investigation of statutory rape, an unhealthy obsession with women’s bodies in general, and topped off with an unnatural sexual objectification of his own blood daughter. Yech!

          Bill Clinton’s history has no relevance to Hillary Clinton’s future as our next President. Even so, his misconduct pales in comparison to Don “the Con” Trump.

  • John Bernard Books

    Dems love their biased polls
    “Post-debate surveys like CNN’s aren’t always popular with poll mavens, in part because the universe of debate-watchers may not match the electorate overall. The voters in CNN’s poll were Democratic-leaning by a net of 15 percentage points, for instance, a considerably wider advantage than Democrats are likely to enjoy on Election Day.”
    Maybe a biased poll won’t stop Trump
    “What if Clinton doesn’t improve in the polls — or they even move toward Trump? Then that ought to be scary for Democrats, obviously. While Trump’s lack of preparation could also potentially cause him problems in the second and third debates, he showed off some of his worst qualities on Monday night, appearing to be the weaker leader than Clinton and less presidential than her, according to the CNN poll. If undecided and marginal voters were willing to shrug off Trump’s performance, then perhaps they really are in the mood for the sort of change that Trump represents, his faults be damned.”
    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clinton-won-the-debate-which-means-shes-likely-to-gain-in-the-polls/

    Hillary is a bad candidate…..when will that sink in with democrats?

    • BCinBCS

      JBB, did you even read what you posted?
      Once again, your conclusion is not supported by the very document that you quote.

      • John Bernard Books

        How many times do we have to go over this? I can read it to you I just can’t understand it for you…..you’re going to need some help if you want to run with the big dogs….

        • BCinBCS

          From your posting, JBB: “While Trump’s lack of preparation could also potentially cause him problems in the second and third debates, he showed off some of his worst qualities on Monday night, appearing to be the weaker leader than Clinton and less presidential than her, according to the CNN poll.”

          So if, as you claim, Hillary is a bad candidate where does that rank Trump?

          • John Bernard Books

            Trump is a better candidate than Hillary, I can explain it to you…..I just can’t understand it for you.

          • BCinBCS

            That’s not what your post said.

          • John Bernard Books

            again it was over your head…….

  • donuthin2

    Cruz’s late decision to support Trump looks even more ill advised than ever. And now he is rationalizing the debate performance. He is a loser.

    • Shelly H.

      The rationalizations are just hilarious. The bending of logic and reality is amazingly complex.

      • donuthin2

        You would think he might start losing staff because if they value their career in the future, they need to disassociate themselves from him asap. Conway is as loose cannon as he is. Surely some of his staff will value their integrity enough to get some distance.

        • Sacagewea

          They have no integrity to lose.

    • Erica Grieder

      Yeah, seriously. He’s having a pretty rough week.

      • squidpuppy

        Yeah. Reminds me of a pretzel.

  • John Bernard Books

    Another Clinton crazy?
    “The former Miss Universe at the center of a bitter exchange in Monday’s presidential debate was accused of aiding a would-be murderer and threatening to kill a judge, it has emerged.”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3810484/Miss-Universe-fat-shamed-Donald-Trump-accused-threatening-kill-judge-accomplice-MURDER-native-Venezuela.html#ixzz4LYafpBr3

    Apparently miss piggy is a friend of Bill…. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f326c58d500ba27ad6eb4c874fcfe26185464a5d56f8b5e08d88f0e400aa7dfa.jpg

    • disqus_NTll7amwho

      Come on, get real, the Daily Mail is a scandal rag, the UK’s equivalent to the National Inquirer. The next article below the one you mentioned probably has to do with Aliens jamming Trumps microphone. If you are going to post links, at least try to find legitimate news sources.

      • John Bernard Books

        “Former Miss Universe winner Alicia Machado, who has been campaigning against Republican nominee Donald Trump for the Hillary Clinton campaign, has appeared in pornographic videos.”
        http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/27/porn-star-campaigns-for-hillary-clinton/#ixzz4LZhRAOYe

        porn videos…holy moly dems are scraping the bottom of the barrel again….

        • DragonMama

          Team Blue won’t judge you for your to-watch video list, so long as all participants are consenting adults as surely Ms. Machado was at the time of filming. Team Red on the other hand….

          • John Bernard Books

            I know dems view porn stars as celebrities, sick right?

          • John Johnson

            Did Bill introduce Machado to Hillary?

        • BCinBCS

          It has become imminently clear that almost everything that the answer-bot posts from his RWNJ internet vacuuming is incorrect – including this accusation.

          Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/alicia-machado-adult-star/#!

          How anyone could not be mortified from the embarrassment of constantly being proven wrong is beyond my comprehension.

    • squidpuppy

      Lol

  • donuthin2

    I happened to watch Rachel, I think it is Maddox last night. She obviously has her bias for democrats and Hillary, but her dissection of the Trump remarks were brutal. She is smart, succinct and tough as nails. She is every bit as biased as the old washed up Fox guys, but a lot more effective. I will have to admit that I like Kelly on Fox. I’m afraid to look at my motives.

    • Sacagewea

      Her name is Maddow. She has a doctorate in pol. science. She never screams, interrupts, or sprays saliva on those on the other side of a discussion.

      • donuthin2

        Thanks, I thought she was pretty remarkable.

    • John Bernard Books

      Her name is Madcow for a reason….

  • Redeemed

    I get a real hoot out of liberals. They are soooo offended and concerned about Trump being “rude and uncouth.” They’re semi-traumatized by his words and actions. Yet, they’re silent on Hillary’s “extreme carelessness” with the handling of highly classified information. Couldn’t care less about her Foundation and the 100s of millions contributed by foreign countries, many of whom engage in outright persecution of women and LGBT. Most ignore her blatant lies about being sniped at in Bosnia, her position on same sex marriage (she was always for it despite having been against it), that she had “turned over all of her work-related emails,” only to have the State Department and FBI “discover” 10s of thousands she had not turned over … and on and on. No wonder so many call liberalism a mental health disorder. I’m no fan of Trump either, but this total denial by liberals regarding Hillary is stunning.

    • squidpuppy

      You drank all the koolaide and didn’t share any with us!?

    • José

      What a load of hooey. You deserve to be called out.

      It’s quite the lie to say that Clinton supporters have been silent on all those items you listed. Shoot, it was the NYTimes that first reported the private email server. And Clinton herself has acknowledged and apologized many times for a number of things. Nearly every Clinton endorsement I see includes something like “she’s not perfect, but…”

      If you are truly bothered by someone who is careless, deceitful, and COMPLETELY unwilling to admit or apologize then you gotta aim at the Gran Naranja himself and the Trumpkins who are incapable of explaining why they can logically support such a miscreant. Hop to it, son.

      • John Johnson

        Let me take a shot…Hillary is a lying, conniving, immoral, corner cutting, disrespectful, flip flopping, life long politician who has no major accomplishments next to her name while in public office…except accumulation of wealth.

        One candidate wants to turn Washington upside down; one wants to stay on the same path. We cannot afford more of the same.

        • Sam Jacinto

          Still trying to rationalize support for an irrational, unhinged, thin-skinned, lying con man. He’ll turn things upside down alright, like a petulant toddler with his bucket of toys for adults to clean up later.

          • John Johnson

            He hasn’t lied to Congress; he hasn’t lied to the FBI; he hasn’t destroyed incriminating evidence; he hasn’t lied to grieving parents about the death of their sons; he hasn’t gotten rich by playing the quid pro quo game; he treats employees with respect; he has a list of business accomplishments; he is not a 30 year do-nothing politician, and you are the one trying to rationalize our support of him? That’s funny.

          • Sam Jacinto

            He’s not testified before Congress. FBI did not charge HRC for anything. Grieving parents differ on their accounts.
            He was propped up by $14million from his father, he was sued for housing discrimination twice and paid fines, he contributed money from a charity to a politician for quid pro quo vis a vis a potential lawsuit, he has stiffed contractors and suppliers, he has reneged on bank loans, he has filed for bankruptcy six times, he has been sued by thousands of customers and suppliers, he cut off health care for a disabled relative, he used money from a charity to pay fines for his business, he has shady ties to Russian oligarchs while defending Russian hackers and praising Putin, he admires dictators for their “leadership” strength, he lies about charitable contributions, he pays no taxes because of shady arrangements, he has magically disappearing bone spurs, he insults POWs, he insults Gold Star parents, he insults our generals, he knows nothing about foreign policy or the constitution, he is a racist, he embraces conspiracy theories, his public statements and depositions are in complete opposition, he takes credit for things he did not do, he is a serial adulterer with clear misogynistic views, he committed fraud with his fake university, he uses campaign contributions to pay himself, he claims 9/11 tax credits he does not deserve, he sees thousands of cheering muslims unseen by anyone else, he’s used at least two pseudonyms to act as spokesperson for himself, he would start a war over the Bird, he insults our allies, he insults an entire religion, he insults entire ethnic groups, he would commit war crimes, he is notoriously vindictive, he denies his own words easily found on tape, and he is a narcissistic buffoon. Just to start.

          • donuthin2

            One would think that Sam’s list is pretty complete. But in all probability it is just a start. JJ, you need to give it up. Just stay awhile and you will be ok.

          • John Johnson

            No, keep going. He uses the laws people like Hillary pass which allow the Big’s to have their way with us through skewed tax laws and get-outta-jail free cards. Trump has used them to his advantage…no doubt about it…so when he says things need fixing and he knows how to do it, I believe him. Hillary has been part of the same-old, same-old for how long now? Promises unfulfilled; a disastrous health program, the Arab Spring screw up, the spiraling debt, and her slimey past. Bring Trump on; I ain’t scared!

          • Beerman

            JJ,

            Sam has made some very factual points about Trumpism.

            It is time to put the nation above your hatred of Hillary Clinton, and recognize that Trump is a con man and BS artist deluxe. Trump serving as our President would be a disaster for us all. The majority of Americans expect our President to demonstrate respect to all people, reverence for all people, be knowledgeable, steady and prepared from day one. The choice is very clear.

          • John Johnson

            Not going to happen. She is evil.

          • Shelly H.

            You keep using that word yet, It doesn’t mean what you think it means.

            Seriously, stop using the word evil to describe Hillary.

          • Beerman

            Well said, and I would add that he has a weird enthusiasm for every paranoid conspiracy out there.

    • Beerman

      To suggest that HRC flaws are in any way on a level with Trump’s moral weakness as a candidate is absurd and precarious.

      BELIEVE ME…BELIEVE ME…

      • John Johnson

        Says you.

        • donuthin2

          and me.

          • John Johnson

            Hahaha…well that settles it then.

          • John Bernard Books

            actually that cements it…

    • Sacagewea

      Yawn. Neutral fact checkers report Trump lied 80% of the time.

      • John Johnson

        Pearl, who are neutral’s in this race? The answer is “no one”. No one. Quit trying to propagate that b.s.

        • BCinBCS

          JJ, your belief that everyone associated with government, except Donald Trump, is crooked and merely wants what is worse for the United States is beginning to wear thin. I can understand that you support Trump, although I don’t understand the logic, but your cynicism is putting your logic on par with JBB.

          • John Johnson

            You don’t know what you are talking about. If I say the Dallas Cowboys stink, that is not to suggest that all the players are bad; it suggests that they are part of a bad team that is not successful and needs to be “reprogrammed”…so knock off the ignorant comments.

          • John Bernard Books

            He literally does not know how…..

          • BCinBCS

            JJ wrote: “If I say the Dallas Cowboys stink, that is not to suggest that all the players are bad; it suggests that they are part of a bad team that is not successful and needs to be “reprogrammed”…

            And part of the reprogramming that you state is needed by the Dallas Cowboys is hiring a new coach. You advocate hiring a grifting real estate developer who has never coached a day in his life or played a single down in football, not to mention that he alienates the black, hispanic and female fans of the team rather than hiring a coach with thirty years of football experience.

          • John Johnson

            You only have two choices in this situation…a coach that thinks exactly like the one you’ve got, and has 30 years of zero accomplishments, or one who is pushing change. Sign me up for change. It can’t get any worse.

          • BCinBCS
    • Jed

      “liberals” aren’t in denial about those things. we have, after all, watched her being publicly flogged for all of them for her entire public life. we have also watched as none of them resulted in any criminal charges and investigation after (partisan) investigation returned a verdict of no wrong-doing.

      meanwhile, the stuff that trump has done over that same span is only now coming to light. we haven’t seen 30 years of scrutiny, nor have we seen congress hold multiple committees researching the same charges. nor will we ever, most likely, even though he actually admits a great deal of illegal behavior.

      now who is in total denial?

      • BCinBCS

        Also not taking into account that Trump will not release his income taxes and his medical records. Could Trump even begin to withstand the detailed scrutiny that Hillary has undergone?

    • WUSRPH

      Most Hillary supporters do not deny her faults and weaknesses but we compare her to the alternative and that makes her the only choice.

      • donuthin2

        Agree. Would love to have had a decent Republican to vote for but we never came close.

      • Wilson James

        Agree as well. The GOP had what, 17 candidates? And nary a one worth a darn. What does this tell you of the current state of the GOP.

  • Tejasguitarman

    He’s an update of that old fairy tale but now it’s called “Trumplethinskin”

  • Sacagewea
  • John Bernard Books

    Hillary likes to blame the vast right wing conspiracy for her impeached hubby getting caught lying under oath…..

  • John Bernard Books

    Republicans under Trump’s leadership finally standing up to Prez Obama over riding his veto
    “The Senate today voted 97-1 to override a veto from President Obama, for the first time, over a bill that would allow the families of 9/11 victims to sue Saudi Arabia for its alleged role in the 2001 terrorist attacks.”
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senate-vote-override-president-obamas-veto-911-bill/story?id=42415601

    Must be Trump’s leadership…..

    • BCinBCS

      Yea, dumb-ass, with this one override the Congress has opened the door for any country to sue U.S soldiers and their families, State Department workers and their families and anyone else associated with the U.S. That’s quite a victory.

      • donuthin2

        Another case of congress being wimpy and yielding to their constituents rather than doing what they undoubtedly know is right for the country. There is a reason that we are a republic.
        They have no gonads.

        • John Bernard Books

          We have a representative government learn what that means.

      • John Bernard Books

        So why did the smarter than anyone in the whole world dems vote for it….it passed 97-1.

        • BCinBCS

          Why did towns full of people lynch black people? Why did a majority on the Supreme Court pass Citizens United? Just because it’s a majority does not make it right.

          • John Bernard Books

            “Just because it’s a majority does not make it right”
            Do you mean like when Obamacare passed?

          • BCinBCS

            Just because a majority in one case is wrong does not make all cases of the majority wrong. Sheese.

          • BCinBCS

            Now that President Obama’s veto has been overridden, the Turtle (Mitch McConnell) has realized the Senate’s error and is now trying to modify the bill that they so cavalierly passed.

  • Sean Jon

    Clearly Trumplethinskin is not tempered to lead the country…so if he is elected…who will be making the critical decisions that will effect the lives of Americans….it appears Ivanka is the only one he listens too…and she too is not align to make those decisions…Trump is in the real estate business and his only concern is to get his highly leverage business back from the Russians. …he wants interest rates to increase as he eluded during the debate…he does not care about this country…and he will rubber stamp anything that comes to his desk…and if elected…domestic and global confidence will be at an all time high…which will effect our economic status globally…or simply stating…the decline of the dollar

  • John Bernard Books

    Dems have declared Hillary the winner of the universe…..but
    “DONALD TRUMP widened his lead over Hillary Clinton following the first presidential debate at Hofstra University.”
    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/09/usc-dornsife-poll-trump-widens-lead-first-debate/

    Let the excuses begin…….

    • BCinBCS

      There you go, licking the icing of the subject cake instead of getting down into an entire slice.

      The USC Dornsife/LA Times Presidential Election “Daybreak” Poll is a running average poll, not a snap shot poll so the one day effect of the debate only affected one-seventh of the entire polling universe for them and it was diluted by six days of previous polling data.

      If you go over to 538, you can see a list of dozens of different polls and their results. 538 also grades the accuracy of each poll and its method. The USC Dornsife/LA Times is one of the few without a grade (I don’t know why) and it is only one of a couple in the very long list of polls that show Trump leading Hillary.

      That’s how you sample the cake.

      • John Bernard Books

        sets hook deeper…..oh how stupid can dems be.

      • Sacagewea

        “Twinkie” would be a more appropriate analogy.

        • John Bernard Books

          Mizz Piggy Is that you?

        • Sacagewea

          He loves Twinkies.

  • texasace00

    Every general election only serves to remind us that most people in this country are stupid. If you know one Trump supporter, know that for the rest of your life that’s at least one person you’ll always be smarter than

  • John Bernard Books

    Non-citizen terrorist voting?
    “Federal sources confirm to KING 5 that Cetin was not a U.S. citizen, meaning legally he cannot vote. However, state records show Cetin registered to vote in 2014 and participated in three election cycles, including the May presidential primary.”
    do you trust a terrorist?
    “While voters must attest to citizenship upon registering online or registering to vote at the Department of Licensing Office, Washington state doesn’t require proof of citizenship. Therefore elections officials say the state’s elections system operates, more or less, under an honor system.”
    http://www.king5.com/news/local/investigators-may-probe-cascade-mall-suspects-citizenship-status-voting-record/327490798

    I’m shocked……

  • John Bernard Books

    Why did Trump have to debate Hillary and Lester?
    “But according to candidate Hillary Clinton and moderator Lester Holt during Monday night’s presidential debate, stop and frisk is “unconstitutional.” They are wrong. In Mrs. Clinton’s case, it’s the usual misrepresenting she does when she does not know what she is talking about. As for Mr. Holt, if a moderator is going to interfere, he should do some homework and not pretend to know the law when he does not. Mr. Holt and NBC cannot overrule the U.S. Supreme Court.”
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-is-right-about-stop-and-frisk-1475018152

    neither dems or the media pretend anymore they are desperate to stay in power as Hillary tanks.

  • John Bernard Books

    As I predicted before “the debate” Hillary and Lester would stay away from issues and did they ever by bringing up Miss Piggy the porn star.
    Hillary cannot discuss issues or her record. Lets see who they’ll introduce next…. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/827f7bdbf0542ec6dd41ab63dbf5cf34234c1f29ea4c0140a9077f38ef2852fa.jpg

    • BCinBCS

      It’s a shame that the list of Trump scandals is so many pages long that only the last page of them showed on the graphic that you used JBB.

  • Beerman

    Valid points from a woman about the presidential campaign/debate:

    “Imagine a woman who showed up (to a presidential debate) unprepared, sniffling like a coke addict and interrupting her opponent 70 times. Let’s further imagine that she’s had 5 kids by 3 men, was a repeated adulterer, had multiple bankruptcies, paid zero federal taxes and rooted for the housing crisis in which many thousands of families lost their homes. Wait…there’s more: she has never held any elected office in her life.”

    –Michelle Vitalione

  • Sacagewea
  • Shelly H.

    Evil – extreme immorality. I’m not arguing the definition. I’m arguing the misapplication of it. Serial killers are evil. Cults are evil. Evil is not a word one should use carelessly or thoughtlessly. Evil is a word one uses to describe someone who is so morally bankrupt that there are no redeeming qualities left. Evil is a word one should use to describe acts like rape, torture, murder.

    How about this JJ – you’re just as evil as she is for continuing to bear false witness against her. You John Johnson are evil, because you continue to bear false witness against others. Your contempt of those who hold a different point of view from you is evil. Your lack of kindness and compassion for your fellow man is evil.

    So unless you would like to have the label evil applied to you perhaps you shouldn’t be so quick to use it, because using it in the manner you are dilutes the meaning of it and it then becomes something that can be applied to anyone for any transgression.

  • John Johnson

    Does this not grow old and predictable and a waste of time? We all know who is voting for whom; we all know the declared reasons we are voting for one and not the other.

    Does anyone posting here think that they are going to change anyone’s opinion or vote?

    I am the only one I know of on this site who has ever vascillated one iota, and it was the candidate’s own actions that brought me to my senses…nothing you guys offered up.

    Our blog master has gotten caught up in the aura that I guess people like Perry and Cruz cast off…something akin to the Sirens sweet songs. I can’t relate since I have never gotten close enough to be drawn in. All I have to go on is what I see with my own eyes and hear with my two ears. The media plays a smaller and smaller role in formulating my opinions because they are all pushing an agenda. Literally every one of them. Reporters are not reporters; they are toned down commentators and columnists. Polls are the same way. I enjoy reading where you all are coming from, but why to we insist on repeating ourselves and our broken record messages?

    • donuthin2

      It is kinda like, “l have my mind made up, please don’t confuse me”.

      • John Johnson

        Hahaha. Are you offering up that statement for all here, or just me?

        • donuthin2

          For all of us.

  • donuthin2

    It just occurred to me that if Bill Clinton were the candidate he would would win in a landslide and all of his indiscretions would not matter. It is funny that so many are trying to make his indiscretions a issue for Hillary. My guess is it will back fire, but who knows.

    My fear is that something from the email investigation is being held back until a more strategic time to be released so that she will have little time to rehabilitate from whatever it might be. We shall see.

    • John Johnson

      I agree with all you say. Surprise, surprise.

      I do think he would be elected, but something is wrong with old Bill. He is a mere shadow of his former self.

      Bill had some accomplishments, and as far as I know, he treated people well. All the stinky stuff, other than his piccadillos, were minor compared to the list of questionable things attributed to her going all the way back to her Little Rock law firm days.

      I was having a few with golfing buddies on FTW’s Northside one evening and a cutting horse guy from Arkansas who was a friend of a friend told the story of an annual clay shoot/BBQ he attended where a bunch of the hardcore guys were sitting around a fire pit passing a bottle around while shooting the bull and telling jokes. Hillary was right in the middle of it. He said that Bill sauntered up and that she hollared, “Get the f#*k outta here, Bill…we’re having a good time without ya.” He said he simply turned around and walked off.

      I think she has pulled him around like he had a ring in his nose since they got married. I think she has been the master planner.

      I could add the story about my ATF neighbor’s Secret Service brother who was on their detail in Little Rock after Bill was nominated, but I think I have already shared it here in the past.

      I think she is a Jekyll & Hyde. I think she is the root of all evil. I will not vote for her.

      This is my take. It

      • WUSRPH

        You and Trump seem to have a problem with forceful and independent women. Afraid they will cut it off?

        • José

          You can’t lose what you don’t have.

    • John Bernard Books

      It isn’t about Bill’s lying and infidelities its about her reaction, her harassment of the women who told on Bill.

  • John Bernard Books

    Hillary is a terrible candidate so dems have to steal another election…..more voter fraud.
    “The FBI and local police are investigating how at least 19 dead Virginians were recently re-registered to vote in this critical swing state.”
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/he-fought-in-world-war-ii-he-died-in-2014-and-he-just-registered-to-vote-in-va/2016/09/29/5e0bffee-8670-11e6-ac72-a29979381495_story.html

    We’re watching dems it will take more than turning the IRS on us.

  • John Bernard Books

    I’d say it is safe to say voter fraud has been exposed…
    “Testimony by a prosecutor at the Attorney General’s office revealed nearly half of voter-fraud related complaints received by the OAG allege well-organized groups are engaging in voter harvesting operations aimed at stealing elections.”
    http://www.empowertexans.com/around-texas/texas-ag-targeting-organized-mass-attempts-to-steal-votes/

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/75be5d04f0eaf7d5c40f5147ad695dd441ce312b93b177c114e8bec5711724b2.jpg

  • John Bernard Books

    Who signed the Nafta trade agreement? Trump said it was Clinton, Rachel Madcow said it was Bush….
    “He did say a lot of untrue things. Bill Clinton did not sign NAFTA. George Bush signed NAFTA,” Maddow ruled in the first of several on-screen bullet points.”
    http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/curtis-houck/2016/09/29/msnbcs-maddow-muddies-waters-nafta-signing-attempt-smear-trump

    What a hoot dems will say anything…because they know dem voters are stupid.

  • John Johnson
  • Shelly H.

    I didn’t claim to be a preacher, and especially not your preacher, nor am I calling you out as a fellow Christian. As a woman, wife, and mother I wear more hats than you comprehend.

    Do you really get or is this more of your false peace offerings? Because the smug condescending smilies aren’t conveying embarrassment or humility.

    What am I fessing up to? Be specific I wouldn’t want to be accused of dodging the question. I’m not the one that’s trying to claim the high moral ground here. I’m not the one who is casting judgements here. All I did was explain why I think your use of the term evil is unwarranted and gave you a clear example – using you and a description of your statements to drive my point home with a metaphorical 2×4.

    When 50% of what Hillary is accused of are lies and the other 50% is based on something small that has been taken out of context or a fair mistake twisted to make it seem 1000X worse than what it is…

    If you were calling it as you see it you would acknowledge that Trump is unfit to be President. You can support him all you want – I could care less who you vote for, just be honest about it. He lost the debate in spectacular fashion and is now making excuses.

    • John Johnson

      Your response makes my point for me. I have nothing more to add. No smiley face.

      • Shelly H.

        Again, what is or was your point? You accuse me and everyone else here of missing the points you claim that you are making. You want to accuse me of having a plank in my eye then do so – stop with the thinly veiled condescension.

        I asked you to stop using the term evil to describe Hillary. It’s not the first time I’ve made that request. You gave an explanation of the definition and points why you thought using it was justified. I agreed with your definition but not the usage and I countered with why I think using it does not meet the level of its definition and gave an example using you as the object of my example. I did that to make the point personal and relevant as to why I object to using that term to describe anyone even a politician – even Trump. I find Trump to be a despicable human being but I don’t believe he is evil. As much as I loathe the man, what he says and stands for, I still do not believe that he has reached the level of being truly evil. Kenneth Alan McDuff the sadistic serial rapist and murderer – I believe that he met the criteria to be called evil.

        To be perfectly clear, I do not think you are evil. You seemed to have missed that point in my example. I think you are arrogant, paternalistic, and lack the self-confidence to admit when you are wrong or have made a mistake. BTW that’s my opinion of you based on your posting persona here – you may be a nice guy IRL who owns his mistakes.

        • John Johnson

          I accuse you of nothing. Your own words do. I fess up to my short comings, as I have done long before you came onboard here. I am an opinionated, hardheaded guy who enjoys arguing positions. Mine have changed here, on occasion, since this blog started. I have found it necessary on occasion to even apologize. I am very comfortable being who I am and expressing how I feel..,even when expressing a minority opinion. I am also thankful that this blog still allows a bunch of radically opinionated people to express their views in unadulterated terms without censorship, as long as it does not become too personal. It is one of the few left that does so. What more can I say? Go back and read what you posted. You are what you chastise me for being. I confess. Will you?

          • Shelly H.

            I could go and grab every time you have said to me or someone else here “you don’t get it, you’re clueless, you’re too blind to understand my point,” etc. I do not have the time to spend on such an endeavor.

            Apologizing and then continuing to engage in the behavior you apologized for negates the apology. It also makes any future apologies that you make worthless. It shows insincerity and a lack of trustworthiness.

            I am passionately opinionated, especially about politics, but I try to be very thoughtful when I express my opinions and try to avoid personal attacks even when defending myself from them. However, I am merely human and I am just as guilty as anyone here of engaging in their use on occasion or agreeing with someone who has used them.

            I erase and edit >90% of what I post here before I hit the post button. I try to make sure that what I say is clear and easy to understand without being misconstrued by the reader. I also try to make sure that it can’t be taken as a personal attack in most instances either. I think that I am successful at keeping it to the point and not the person more often than not. I do tend to be snarky, and blunt, that has been pointed out to me often and I do try to soften that aspect by being wordy.

            I disagree with your belief that calling out someone for bad behavior makes the person who called out that behavior guilty of the same behavior. Maybe I do come across as arrogant to some on here – it is not a complaint I have seen here or in other online communities I participate in. I also try not to be condescending but that is much more difficult to achieve when giving explanations in written conversations such as this. Just the act of giving an explanation is easily interpreted as condescension when the intent is just to be informative.

            Communication in written form can be fraught with misunderstanding since we don’t have the typical cues we rely on when conversing in real life. Cues like tone of voice, facial expression, delivery, emphasis, etc. I try to keep that in mind as I read and respond on here as well.

            I don’t know if that was what you wanted or not but it is the best I am able to explain of how I write my responses here.

          • John Johnson

            1. I have never felt a need to apologize to you.
            2. When you are trapped down in a hole, quit digging.

  • WUSRPH

    I see that Trump has started his beserke atttacks on Hillary and Bill . He will allege things that even JJ has not thought of. Hope it hurts him more than them.

    • John Bernard Books

      When you’ve lived your whole life covered in slime like the Clintons, whats a little more slime?

    • donuthin2

      It is an act of desperation. I don’t think it will work. Nothing that he can say will surprise anyone. She will be smart to pretty much ignore him and change the subject. I am much more worried about the possibility of more damaging emails.

      • Sacagewea

        Women view Hillary sympathetically wrt Bill’s affairs — it’s a Hail Mary move by Trump.

  • John Bernard Books

    Have dems “weaponized” the government? Since when is it ok to use the government against law abiding citizens?
    “In nearly two decades of running our small business, my husband and I never dealt with any government agency, outside of filing our annual tax returns. We had never been audited, we had never been investigated, but all that changed upon submitting applications for the non profit statuses of True the Vote and King Street Patriots. Since that filing in 2010, my private businesses, my nonprofit organizations, and family have been subjected to more than 15 instances of audit or inquiry by federal agencies.””
    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/02/07/true-the-vote-president-catherine-engelbrecht-slams-irs-abuse-weaponizing-of-government-n1791240

    The biggest story in Texas and Texas Monthly remains silent…..now you know why we have Trump.

  • John Bernard Books

    There was no way the FBI could let the investigation into Hillary’s email go forward…..
    “As I explained in February, when it emerged that the White House was refusing to disclose at least 22 communications Obama had exchanged with then-secretary Clinton over the latter’s private e-mail account, we knew that Obama had knowingly engaged in the same misconduct that was the focus of the Clinton probe: the reckless mishandling of classified information.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/440380/obama-email-alias-clinton-why-fbi-didnt-prosecute-hillary

    Thats right POTUS was doing it too…….are you tired of the incompetence yet?

  • John Bernard Books

    The UN is against Trump?
    “The United Nations News Centre — the official U.N. news service — tweeted, then quickly pulled, a post that called for “8 million Americans abroad” to “stop Trump.”

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/un-news-agency-scrubs-tweet-calling-on-foreign-citizens-to-end-trump-228934#ixzz4Lk5NHfn6

    Ok now even I am a believer……

  • John Bernard Books

    Chicago explained….
    ““I went to him and cried and told him he wouldn’t make it,” Causey said. “But this fighting, jumping on people … this is all fun for them. This is what they like to do, you know, so how can you stop them?””
    http://hotair.com/archives/2016/09/29/ap-chicago-murder-capital/

    Most Americans cannot relate to a life of crime as being fun…..when you are devoid of any compassion for human life you’re a lost soul. Democrats pretend to have an agenda of helping the less fortunate. But their real agenda is to divide and create an environment that fosters a culture devoid of compassion.
    Why? There is a very simple answer. Christianity and compassion are synonymous. Democrats are waging a war against Christianity.

    • BCinBCS

      Every day, in every way you prove that you are an idiot.

      • John Bernard Books

        Knocks on Bc’s wooden head….hello anyone home?

  • Sacagewea
  • John Bernard Books

    Dems and transparency……
    “Political operatives within the Obama administration wrongly punished conservative legal group Judicial Watch, stripping it of “media” status and trying to force it to pay higher fees for its open records requests, the General Services Administration inspector general said in a letter released Thursday.”
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/sep/29/obama-operatives-stripped-judical-watch-of-media-s/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork

    Transparency means nothing to crooked dems….

  • WUSRPH

    Many nasty things have been said about Trump, but none worse than what the National Review said about him today when it referred to him in a headline as Donald Milhouse Trump.

  • John Bernard Books

    This is why dems are so afraid of Trump…

  • John Bernard Books

    One can only wonder when will it end?
    “It’s bad enough that FBI Director James Comey agreed to pass out immunity deals like candy to material witnesses and potential targets of his investigation into former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s illegal private email server.
    But now we learn that some of them were immunized despite lying to Comey’s investigators.
    In the latest bombshell from Congress’ probe into what’s looking more and more like an FBI whitewash (or coverup) of criminal behavior by the Democratic nominee and her aides, the Denver-based tech who destroyed subpoenaed emails from Clinton’s server allegedly lied to FBI agents after he got an immunity deal.”
    http://nypost.com/2016/09/28/the-fbis-hillary-email-probe-is-looking-even-more-like-a-coverup/

    It will end when we vote them out……

  • John Bernard Books

    Will Obama pardon Hillary?
    “At a campaign rally in Novi, Michigan Friday evening, Donald Trump asked President Barack Obama not to “pardon Clinton and her co-conspirators” if any charges were filed related to the email scandal.”
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/30/trump_to_obama_do_not_pardon_hillary_clinton_or_her_co-conspirators.html

    When Trump wins will he clean house at the DOJ and start prosecuting again……

  • Tom

    …”who she has underperformed with….” – gee, whatever happened to English grammar?

  • Wilson James

    Polling is interesting after the meltdown….Clinton has gained ground almost everywhere and with the most recent news on Trumps finances and taxes it looks like smooth sailing ahead. Going to be lots of weirdness as the GOPs leader melts down and at the last minute the entire party tries to distance itself. Watching his surrogates go nuts has been an added bonus.

  • Wilson James

    The hilarity continues as fact checkers examine all of what Pence denied and/or said. He lied, as his master does but with much better skill. It really is hard to imagine someone so intellectually challenged, so wrongheaded as to vote GOP this cycle.