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Ken Paxton Rules That Licensed Handgun Owners Can Bring a Firearm to Church

The attorney general issued the opinion to provide legal options for improving church security in Texas.

By Comments

Jay Janner/Austin American-Statesman via AP

In the wake of the state’s worst mass shooting, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton issued a legal opinion stating that people with a state License to Carry may bring a handgun into a church unless the institution has given visitors proper notice that firearms are banned from the premises. The ruling was designed to help provide legal options for improving church security.

The opinion had been requested by Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick after a gunman killed 26 people on November 5 at the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, a tiny community outside San Antonio. A neighbor shot the gunman as he tried to flee, and a subsequent car chase ended when the man committed suicide. The incident sparked a debate over whether churches should have security, either professional or volunteer, to protect worshipers.

“If a church decides to exclude the concealed or open carrying of handguns on the premises of church property, it may provide the requisite notice, thereby making it an offense for a license holder to carry a handgun on those premises,” Paxton wrote in his official opinion. “However, churches may instead decide not to provide notice and to allow the carrying of handguns on their premises.”

“Unless a church provides effective oral or written notice prohibiting the carrying of handguns on its property, a license holder may carry a handgun onto the premises of church property as the law allows,” Paxton wrote.

Paxton also ruled that any church that wants to set up its own volunteer security team is exempt from paying required Private Security Act fees, clarifying a new piece of legislation that took effect on September 1.

The standard procedure for any facility to ban the carrying a firearm requires a conspicuous sign in Spanish and English that reads: “Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person llicensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun.”

 

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  • John Bernard Books

    Hellyessss

  • WUSRPH

    They can shoot the sinners.

    • SpiritofPearl

      How can they tell the sheep from the wolves? They all wear Stetsons . . .

      • WUSRPH

        Black hats are for the bad guys.

  • Jed

    if i follow: change the rule to allow persons unknown to walk into a church with concealed weapons, in order to defend against the other people who may walk in there with unconcealed weapons. then suggest that because there are all these people walking around with weapons, the churches may need their own security forces, which are to be unregulated, natch, thereby literally missing the point of the second amendment.

    church security forces? nope, not fascist at all. (nobody expects the spanish inquisition!)

    yeah, this all sounds like the safest and most freedom-loving possible response to the problem.

    thanks obama.

    • BCinBCS

      Jed, you do realize that about 80% of conservatives do not understand your last sentence?

      • Jed

        80% of conservatives don’t understand much.

        • John Bernard Books

          actually we do understand how crazy dems are….

    • BigMan68

      It appears you don’t follow. This opinion only clarifies that it is indeed legal for people licensed to carry handguns to carry said handgun into a church, unless that church posts the required sign disallowing carry.

      And your Second Amendment argument is incorrect as well. The SCOTUS has already ruled that the right to keep AND BEAR arms is an individual right (DC v Heller, 2008).

      http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/554/570.html

  • John Bernard Books

    Greatest prez ever?
    “With the passage of the GOP tax bill this week, the Trump administration has scored 81 major achievements in its first year, making good on campaign promises to provide significant tax cuts, boost U.S. energy production, and restore respect to the United States, according to the White House.
    And along the way, President Trump even outdid his own expectations and slashed at least 11 major legacy items of former President Barack Obama”
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/year-one-list-81-major-trump-achievements-11-obama-legacy-items-repealed/article/2644159

    of course not silly…he just looks that way after prez Obama…..

  • SpiritofPearl

    Another reason to remain a secular humanist . . .

  • June Gordon

    Yes, the answer to crazy people with guns is to ensure that there are more crazy people with guns! Praise God! Glory!

    • SpiritofPearl

      Amen!

      If you need to take a gun to church, it’s time to find a different church.

      • BCinBCS

        If you need to take a gun to church, it’s time to find a different church.

        That’s an interesting way to look at the problem. I have become so used to gun violence, that solution never came to mind.

        When I was young (uh-oh here it comes), when I was young, churches were never locked so that those that wanted/needed could come in to pray at any time. No one burglarized a church – it just wasn’t done. Additionally, about one in every four pickup truck had a gun rack in the rear window with a “varmint” rifle in it. These trucks were never locked and no one bothered the rifles. Despite the opportunities, mass shootings in churches never occurred. So what has changed?

        • SpiritofPearl

          The NRA.

          • SpiritofPearl

            As a city girl, guns just weren’t part of life for me.

          • SeeItMyWay

            The NRA is responsible for children raised by one or neither parent, with no moral fiber; no concept of right or wrong…no idea who their father is, in a area where gangs are glamorous and hate spewing rappers are idolized…on a block where the corner store will sell you booze on a food stamp card, and the guys just outside a snoot full of crack or meth…in a city where guns have been outlawed yet are still prevalent, and where law enforcement has been handcuffed and berated by the local mayors, and until recently, our President. This is all the NRA’s fault?

            The NRA is responsible for Americans not wanting to turn weapons over to a federal government that illegally spies on them, supplies the bad guys with weapons on occasion, and, if recent reports are true, allowed a terrorist group to funnel illegal drugs into our country instead of shutting them down?

            What world do you live in? Not the one I’m in.

          • SpiritofPearl

            You a d your gun-toting compatriots live in fear and delusion. What has the NRA ever done for inner city kids? Nada.

          • SeeItMyWay

            You blamed the NRA for current problems. Name ‘um.

          • BCinBCS

            You must have an incredibly large amygdala.

    • BigMan68

      People who are licensed to carry in Texas pass a background check and are legally able to purchase and possess firearms. In what universe does that make them “crazy”?

  • John Bernard Books

    dems are sick of winning….want to impeach Prez Trump
    “PowerPost Analysis
    Forget what they say — House Democrats are readying for impeachment”
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/forget-what-they-say–house-democrats-are-readying-for-impeachment/2017/12/20/c9ad6548-e5c5-11e7-833f-155031558ff4_story.html?utm_term=.cbe64b539a07

    are you sick of winning…….

  • Marvel

    Yee-haw, it’s Gunsmoke here in Texas! Reckon my pastor will be more cautious with his fire and brimstone warnin’s, he may just get more than a smatterin’ of “amens” comin’ back at him. Hot diggity and dang tootin’!

    • BCinBCS

      Great avatar.

  • WUSRPH

    I just want to wish a Happy Holiday, Merry Christmas (Xmas), Kwanza, belated Hanukah and otherwise good will to ALL. I especially hope that the season will bring special gifts to two posters JJ and the Troll. May JJ get the gift of logic and may the Troll lose a little of that hate that is devouring him.

    • John Bernard Books

      I send you the gift of winning……something dems aren’t used to doing.

    • SpiritofPearl

      The ancient celebration of the winter solstice honors the return of the sun each year. Let there be light!

  • John Bernard Books
  • WUSRPH

    Did you notice how BIG virtually ERONMOUS Trump’s signature was on the tax bill? Ego problem anyone?

    • José

      Best wishes of the season, amigo

    • Kozmo

      Maybe some of the massive influx from So. Cal. has started breeding — the younger ones might be inclined toward the Dems, but then again, a lot of well-off Republican voters from Orange County, and other outraged California “conservatives,” came to Texas in search of a low-tax, low-services state to call their own, and have made a lot of the urban suburbs redder.

  • WUSRPH

    http://tinyurl.com/y9ouvmb8

    Did you see the Washington Post’s list of the 15th most likely Democratic candidates for 2020? Assuming that I am still around (and I have all intentions of being so) I may have a real problem choosing a candidate….Anybody but Trump, of course.

    • SpiritofPearl

      I like Sherrod Brown right now.

      • BCinBCS

        I liked Kirsten Gillibrand but her haste in the Al Franken case has given me second thoughts.

        • SpiritofPearl

          She has long been a righteous warrior against sexual abuse, especially in the military. It grieved me that she attacked HRC, her mentor. I don’t like turncoats.

        • SpiritofPearl

          Me too. What to do instead? I’d like to see the Ethics Comm. complete the process first.

          I used to belong to an organization that lobbied to get money diverted from military spending to support life-saving support for the poor – micronutrition, clean water, TB drugs. Sherrod was always supportive of our efforts, but humanity and basic decency seems not to be an attribute for a leader these days . . .

    • Kozmo

      Hope Rep. Tulsi Gabbard got a mention there. I’m not a WAPO subscriber so the article is blocked for me.

      • SpiritofPearl

        Tulsi is a female Hindu which is fine with me. India was a tolerant culture until recently. Tulsi has some intolerance toward Islam. While I’m not religious, I believe all beliefs have a place at the table.

  • SpiritofPearl

    You have control issues.

    • John Bernard Books

      he merely pointed out gasbag was off topic again,,,,,seems like you have the need to control

  • SpiritofPearl

    And I have made it to where I am with education. Knowledge, my friend, is power.

  • John Bernard Books

    dems have a problem…why was Debbie covering for this guy?
    “If a customer showed up looking to buy a car from Cars International A, often referred to as CIA, Abid Awan — who was managing partner of the dealership while also earning $160,000 handling IT for House Democrats — would frequently simply go across the street to another dealership called AAA Motors and get one.”
    http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/19/house-it-aides-ran-car-dealership-with-markings-of-a-nefarious-money-laundering-operation/

    yes dem voters will still vote for dems….because they are told to……wow

  • John Bernard Books

    We hear that liberalism is a mental disorder but it isn’t liberalis, that is….
    “Two decades ago, I wrote an essay in Foreign Affairs that described an unusual and worrying trend: the rise of illiberal democracy. Around the world, dictators were being deposed and elections were proliferating. But in many of the places where ballots were being counted, the rule of law, respect for minorities, freedom of the press and other such traditions were being ignored or abused. Today, I worry that we might be watching the rise of illiberal democracy in the United States — something that should concern anyone, Republican or Democrat, Donald Trump supporter or critic.”
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/america-is-becoming-a-land-of-less-liberty/2016/12/29/2a91744c-ce09-11e6-a747-d03044780a02_story.html?utm_term=.f7697f1a5377

    to be liberal is a good thing…..its illiberalism and it infects the brains of most posting here…..

  • WUSRPH

    I also wish that you all get what you sincerely want for xmas….I gave myself an early present this year by blocking JJ….It makes the world a nicer place.

    • SeeItMyWay

      You may have blocked me, which is a goofy move for anyone, but I am obviously still very much in your head, Professor.

      I also think you are still peeking. I don’t think you have blocked anyone. You are too egotistical to let anyone post retorts to your bushel basketful of words without seeing what all have to say.

      • SpiritofPearl

        Dream on. He knows you’ve posted something because he can still see other’s responses to you. My iPad often automatically logs out when I’m on another site, thus temporarily revealing blocked posts. Once I log in again, Booksie and the other members of the lunatic fringe go away again.

        • donuthin2

          Yup, my tablet too and when you see it makes you realize how much better it is with them blocked. I haven’t blocked JJ as I sometimes enjoy seeing his perspective though I wish he and WUSRPH were a little more cordial. For whatever reason, JJ seems to be challenged by WUSRP’s experience and ability to articulate his thoughts.

          • SeeItMyWay

            He is very articulate and intelligent. Perhaps you missed my accolades on occasion. I am no intellectual; I am no great orator or author…but I do have practical experience garnered by 45 years of entrepreneurial endeavors. I didn’t read about it; I lived it. I can’t stand know-it-all’s who really don’t. That’s my problem with the Professor.

          • SeeItMyWay

            Hahaha. You make my point for me. Nary an independent thought. All you can do is attach links with someone else’s opinion passed on. Inbreeding at its finest.

          • BCinBCS

            It is incredibly obvious that you never attended college or, if you did, you didn’t learn anything. You seem to think that everything is cause and effect.

            J.J., just because someone adds a link supporting their point of view does not mean that the supporting document is what caused that point of view. The document may have been posted to support an already established point of view (this is usually the case with me), the document may have been posted because it has a unique argument in support of an already established point of view, the document may have been posted because it motivated the commenter to make the comment or (apparently in your mind) the document may have been posted because it originated the comment.

            You brag about how you have life experience but you forget that Pearl, W, José, Jed, me and several others have life experience supplemented with a rigorous university education. We were taught relentless to support any arguments with supporting documents. We still do this.

            To claim that we do not have an independent thought is rich considering that your posts come straight from Faux News and I cannot begin to explain how biased and outright untruthful they are.

          • SeeItMyWay

            Some lead and some huddle up into a flock and are led. You are no leader, nor innovator, as far as I can tell. You are a follower…an employee. I think all in your flock here have similar backgrounds.

            I never liked having a boss, so I worked for myself. Screws ups and bad decisions were all on me. I learned to read and study and ask before making a radical move. I looked for new, innovative products and services to develop and market, both here and abroad. Those of your ilk compare degrees; guys like me count skins and compare deals. We are never going to agree on much of anything. It’s the way we’re made.

          • BCinBCS

            You are a follower…an employee.

            Another incorrect post by you. I have worked as a real estate investor since 1978 and I have worked exclusively for myself since 1990. Even if I had continued to work in research for others, it would not diminish my knowledge or intelligence, as you seem to imply. You are not the only one with a self-employment and life history.

          • SeeItMyWay

            Diminish your knowledge or intelligence? How could I? You have all those degrees and extensive training, and with them you buy, fix-up and rent. You are on the cutting edge, and I know you cherish those wonderful life experiences. You ought to write a book about it.

          • BCinBCS

            I try to refrain from name-calling but, deep down, you are a self centered ass.

          • SpiritofPearl

            “Inferiority complex” nails it!

            The nurse’s aide who changes the soiled sheets of the incontinent elderly rate much higher in my opinion than people who sell stuff.

          • SpiritofPearl

            There are givers and there are takers. Which one are you?

          • SeeItMyWay

            Everyone “sells”.

          • SpiritofPearl

            I took a break yesterday . . .

            The question JJ should ask is why he thinks businesspeople are the highest form of evolution. I don’t.

          • SpiritofPearl

            Yeah. As a stranger in a strange land, I find W’s real knowledge more useful to me than JJ’s opinions.

  • BCinBCS

    JJ: “Get off my lawn.”

  • John Bernard Books

    A left leaning news site posted the truth…..
    “Most Americans will get a tax cut next year under the plan Congress passed this week”
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-the-tax-bill-will-affect-three-american-families/

    The Edwards are typicals dems….dumber than a rock. But the truth is 80% of Americans will pay lower taxes…..

  • John Bernard Books
    • Don Baker

      Now that is really funny

  • WUSRPH

    While we enjoy the holidays it might not hurt to take a few minutes to think about how the future is going to be different for those who were not lucky enough to have a company or government pension but who in the
    future will have to rely on their own savings and whatever the GOP leaves us of social security. Two stories to think about:

    http://tinyurl.com/ycl7m36w

    http://tinyurl.com/ybjt4me4

  • donuthin2

    I don’t think I have ever experienced a year that was as discouraging as the one we are about to finish in either the nation or in Texas. It is a low point. I always thought we would have to hit bottom before turning it around but I never realized how far down bottom would be. Hopefully we are close.
    and
    Mueller is one of the few in the spotlight as of late that appears to have any integrity left. I hope that if the R are successful at removing him that they pay dearly.

    • John Bernard Books

      oh I think dems can only go lower….and lower.

    • SpiritofPearl

      From what I have read, Mueller has structured his case so that states AGs can file criminal charges in the event he is fired. He hired a lot of former Enron prosecutors and most Texans remember how that turned out.

      Merry Christmas! Blue Tsunami 2018!

  • SpiritofPearl

    You are a bitter old man. Too bad for you. I hope you eventually find peace and happiness some day.

  • SpiritofPearl

    You don’t speak with the spirit of one who blessed and happy, but as a bitter, angry racist who hasn’t gotten over the fact that a black family served two terms in the White House with grace and honor, unlike the current crew of traitors.

    • SeeItMyWay

      Oh, Pearl, when I think about that racist President we just suffered through, I do get angry and pointed, but that is only when I tune in here to your wailing after bitter defeat, and your rose colored view of the WPE. The rest of the time, I’m in the “Thank you, Lord” mode with a big smile on my face. It feels good.

      • SpiritofPearl

        You must take drugs. Bye bye . . .

        • SeeItMyWay

          I wasn’t watching or reading anything Breitbart when Obama sent Al Sharpton as his “emissary” to Ferguson MO. That did it for me…along with O prematurely all but convicting the white policeman who was attacked by a big punk.

      • SpiritofPearl

        “That racist president”? Breitbart talking . . .

      • BCinBCS

        …racist President…WPE…

        Do you know who is now in the White House? Those descriptions of President Obama surely indicate how ill informed you are or how blind.

  • BCinBCS

    In the last two replies to Pearl describing what you don’t like about liberals, you described yourself exactly. Once again conservatives are all about projection.

    • SeeItMyWay

      How can that be? For the past several weeks, you have claimed I never offer up any “proof” in the form of links to support my positions. You, on the other hand, having no contemplated, calculated positions, depend on these links.

      • BCinBCS

        You need to re-read what you replied to Pearl and what I posted. My post did not mention proof, it talked about how what you describe about liberals applies to you.

        I also find it interesting that you use as a defense that you are not using projection the fact that you don’t provide links to support your positions. As a scientist (as is Pearl) I find that astonishing.

  • John Bernard Books
  • John Bernard Books

    Have dems stepped in the deep doo doo…….
    “For months, Horowitz’s investigation — which has amassed interviews with former Attorney General Loretta Lynch, former FBI Director James Comey and other key officials — had been grinding on in near anonymity. That is, until earlier this month when the inspector general acknowledged that Mueller was alerted to a cache of text messages exchanged between two FBI officials on his staff that disparaged Trump.”
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/12/26/analysis-quiet-probe-into-clinton-email-investigation-could-landmine-robert-mueller/965396001/

    If dems were smart they would quietly close the fake Russian collusion investigation and lick their wounds…..but we know they ain’t smart…..

  • WUSRPH

    Hope all had a good xmas day and that JJ and the Troll got their special gifts.

  • John Bernard Books

    When the left gets it wrong….
    “In their desperation, Democrats and the media have taken their spin to absurd heights, which The Wall Street Journal’s Kimberley Strassel pointed out in her op-ed. Every key talking point the Left tossed out there was wrong. Everything they’ve said since then has been wrong. Why? Because whether the Democrats can admit it or not, the GOP tax bill offered real policy results and relief to millions of American families. You can’t spin that. In all, the Democrat-media complex remains horrifically out of touch with most of the country (via WSJ):
    So, while the Left whines, Americans are getting relief. The economic growth this quarter is at solid four percent. Consumer confidence is at a 17-year high. Unemployment is at a near two-decade low. Every indicator also shows that the biggest bonus this country received this year was Hillary Clinton not being elected president. Bravo to Trump and the Republicans, this is a grade-A legislative achievement. For Democrats, let’s see how they defend their abject abandonment of the people they say they’re champions of on a daily basis.
    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2017/12/25/wsj-columnist-the-democrats-are-eating-crow-because-the-gop-tax-bill-produced-re-n2426483?utm_content=buffer1afdf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

    they get it wrong….

  • Kozmo

    Merry Christmas from the State of Texas, in the true spirit of peace and joy. The Saviour is very proud.

  • John Bernard Books

    What is it like to work for a dem……
    “Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas also hands out nicknames to the people who work for her. The Houston Democrat addressed one of her employees as “you stupid motherf*cker.” And not just once, but “constantly,” recalls the staffer, “like, all the time.”
    http://dailycaller.com/2011/03/02/congressional-bosses-from-hell-sheila-jackson-lee/

    Shejack regularly threatens everyone…that she will turn them in to the IRS….gotta love dems….

  • John Bernard Books
  • BCinBCS

    …y’all have been properly schooled on why independent thinkers don’t hold a bunch of huddled up lemmings in high regard.

    You consider yourself an independent thinker? When did Breitbart and Faux News change their names to Independent?

    • SpiritofPearl

      An independent thinker is one who reads (not listens) broadly on both sides of an issue.

      • SeeItMyWay

        You must have missed my subscription list…and to say that listening is not a key to learning is goofy. Did you sleep through all those lectures when you were getting those degrees?

  • WUSRPH

    I’m back did I miss anything different? That of course would not include JJ or the Troll making fools of themselves since they do that all the time.

  • WUSRPH

    I suppose you saw that the Gallup Poll has found President Obama to be the MOST ADMIRED MAN for the 10th year in a row.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/366561-poll-obama-is-most-admired-man-for-the-10th-year-in-a-row

    • SeeItMyWay

      There he goes again…quoting some polling group. Who answers their phones anymore and answers polling questions? Thought he would have learned his lesson after the last Prez election.

      • BCinBCS

        Thought he would have learned his lesson after the last Prez election.

        Thought that you would have learned your lesson after the Virginia and Alabama elections.

        • SeeItMyWay

          What lesson is that? Did you see me quote some poll and predict Moore or Gillespie would win? Nope. All of you, from Hillary on down, are apoplectic over her unexpected loss after those polls you like to quote had her winning.

          • BCinBCS

            You constantly rail against polls so it is logical that you distrust them. This is despite the fact that later presidential polls had the race tightening and that, in the end, Hillary did beat Comrade Trump by nearly three million votes. The polls had the Alabama senate race close but indicated Moore would lose. Polls survey people’s attitudes and report that.

            You do not get to wait until the end of a political, sports or any other contest and then crow about your superior prediction after the winner is determined.

          • SeeItMyWay

            Convenient memory. It runs rampant in your flock.

            I used the terms, “wait and see”, and “hide and watch” more than a few times when you true believers started crowing too loud after Trump’s nomination and almost every debate. All of you were so sure…until late on Nov. 2nd when you had to eat crow. You still haven’t gotten the taste out of your mouths. You never will.

          • BCinBCS

            All of the time that you were “waiting and seeing” you were 100% behind the narcissist-in-chief. You constantly quoted one of the most important polls, how you felt about the presidential race. In retrospect, your poll was exceedingly bad since you backed an incompetent, lying, petulant child for the most powerful office in the world.

    • Don Baker

      Would this be the same poll that said career criminal Hillary would win by a landslide?

      • BCinBCS

        Please give a link to the poll that said Hillary would win by a landslide.

        • SeeItMyWay

          More “give me a link” garbage. Did you miss all the pieces days after the election with all the major polls getting skewered for their goofy projections? Here’s three. Enough for you? The 538 poll you guys loved to quote was giving Hillary a “landslide” right up to Election Day.

          https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/how-did-everyone-get-2016-wrong-presidential-election-231036

          https://www.npr.org/2016/11/14/502014643/4-possible-reasons-the-polls-got-it-so-wrong-this-year

          http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/why-2016-election-polls-missed-their-mark/?amp=1

          • BCinBCS

            So according to you, since the phenomena that is Comrade Trump fooled the polls in the primary and in the general elections, does that means that all polls are now untrustworthy?

            If that is so, then why do Republicans and Democrats and businesses still conduct them?

            Polls are expensive and have a very long history so why are important organizations still using them? Could it be that they know something that you, JJ the independent thinker, does not know?

          • SeeItMyWay

            You seem to forget that the Brexit polls were also way off. I read the questions posed on Republican questionnaires I receive and laugh. People are stupid if they believe the manufactured results they produce. I know that most people I know no longer answer random phone calls or respond to junk mail. The most recent results speak for themselves.

            You asked about links to poll predictions on Hillary; I produced them for you. Satisfied?

          • BCinBCS

            Those Republican “polls” that you got are what are called push polls. Their design is not to discover the opinions of people, their goal is two-fold: first, to identify those who will support the party and give it money; and second, to introduce the political points that the party wants voters to hear, even if those people do not respond to the “poll”.

            Legitimate polling firms such as Pew, 538, Wall Street Journal, CBS, ABC, CBS, Washington Post, etc. have modified their polling procedures due to cell phone use (Pew increased its minimum requirement of cell phone calls to 75% beginning in 2016) and because of unanswered call (they hire more callers to compensate).

            Even after years of experience, polling can still be tricky. There can be a huge difference between someone who is a Republican and likes a particular candidate and someone who is a Republican, likes the same candidate and votes. Turnout is the reason that the Brexit polls were wrong – young people (who were against Brexit) did not vote.

            In the case of Comrade Trump, two factors may have contributed to the inaccuracy of polls. The first, already mentioned, is that the polls predicted that Hillary would get more votes. She did. Secondly, it is quite possible that people lied when polled. There were people who would not admit that they were for Comrade Trump until after he was elected. This skewed the polls.

          • BCinBCS

            The 538 poll you guys loved to quote was giving Hillary a “landslide” right up to Election Day.

            Let me explain it to you.

            538 had predicted that there was a 72% that Hillary would win the election.. This was not a prediction that she would win by a landslide, i.e. by 72% of the vote, it was merely their confidence in the data that Hillary would win the vote. I do not know by how much of the vote 538 was predicting Hillary was going to get but they were 72% confident that she would get more votes than Comrade Trump.

            (This information is one of the things that is taught in a statistic class, yet another of the many reasons why a college education is a good investment.)

          • SeeItMyWay

            They call those “odds”. They gave Hillary a 72% chance of winning as the voting day began; an 84% chance of Trump winning by midnight…and you are right about a 3 in 4 chance of winning not being the same as garnering 3 out of every 4 votes. The fact remains, however, that the polling was terribly wrong, and was the reason for Hillary not campaigning enough in the Rust Belt, and your, and all the rest of your flock’s, total catastrophic mental meltdown. Wrap it up however you want to, but you guys were crowing at the top of your lungs right up to Election Day, and now you are still nibbling on that crow.

            I’ll not comment on your haughty attitude regarding your superior store of knowledge. There is no need to.

        • WUSRPH

          I gather from seeing only your side of this exchange that JJ did NOT get the Xmas present I asked for him…..the ability to use logic. Since Santa did not come thru I guess I will have to ask the Easter Bunny….and if that does not work there is always the Great Pumpkin.

          • SpiritofPearl

            Mr. B. was responding to goofy Don Baker, not JJ.

          • SeeItMyWay

            The Professor is reading everything I post, Pearl. Even if he’s not, BC is copying and pasting most everything I type and he’s reading it there. Then the Professor makes some retort back to BC that is meant for me.
            She anything juvenile about all this? Reminds me of junior high girl stuff.

          • BCinBCS

            He keeps going off about you, Pearl and me citing links as if they were the intelligence du jour and implying that without having read the link ourselves, we would have had no clue about the subject.

            I should take Bob Dillon’s song lyric advice.

          • WUSRPH

            You told him that we would not accept his “opinion” or anecdotes as “evidence” so you say he is not providing cites as if that is all that is required. Now you will have to teach him how to judge the accuracy and validity of various cites….but remember he does not believe in the scientific method as all finding are biased.

          • BCinBCS

            I especially “like” his attitude that once wrong, always wrong. Him not knowing the scientific method contributes to his belief that failure is simply wasted time and effort from which there is no recovery. Apparently he does not know that the scientific method is a self-correcting process.

        • Don Baker

          Guess you didn’t watch very much pre election news.

          • BCinBCS

            Actually, Don, I did and it was the news that was constantly reporting on the “horse race” of the political campaign rather than the issues of the candidates that contributed to the Electoral College win by Comrade Trump.

    • BCinBCS

      With President Obama winning the Most Admired Man for the tenth straight time, this resulted in Comrade Donald Trump being the First US President in 71 years to lose that poll in his first year as president.

  • John Bernard Books

    How do you define patriotism….
    “Liberals largely embraced the idea that using nonviolent civil disobedience to overcome social injustice was a particularly patriotic act, ”
    http://dailysignal.com/2017/12/27/difference-conservatives-liberals-define-patriotism/

    illiberals see violent protesting as a patroitic act….you can’t make up this stuff.

  • WUSRPH

    In case you missed it, RG has an article in the January issue of Texas Monthly (now on line and on the newsstands) about Cruz’s on-going, continuing race for President in the earliest possible election……including 2020 if there is an opportunity.

    Of course, no one who has followed Cruz’s “career” should be the slightest bit surprised…He’s been running for president since junior high at least……The same was true of Obama and is often the case with presidential candidates……While I would be as opposed to Cruz just as much as I am to Trump, I might enjoy seeing him turn into the 2st Century’s Harold Stassen…..Seeing him made even more of a joke than he is today would be somewhat pleasing.

  • BCinBCS

    I am an independent thinker.

    You have an amazing capacity for self delusion.

  • BCinBCS

    To be truthful, I responded to your previous post with reasons for the polls being inaccurate before I read the three articles that you cited. I have since read them and they confirm my arguments. Granted, they give additional reasons for the polls being inaccurate (including the boost that FBI Director Comey gave to the Trump campaign a little over a week before the election) but what I wrote is definitely part of what the articles said. So, it would appear that my comprehension of the facts is correct and my response was not “ignorant”, as you incorrectly stated.

    Maybe it is you who has the comprehension problem. That would partially explain many of the crazy statements that you make.

  • WUSRPH

    At this time of the year various columnists and publications give us their view of what happened during the year. One of the best, if not the best, I have seen so far is in The National Review under
    the title of “The Year of Lost Opportunities”. I recommend it to all…..You can find it at either of the two sites
    below.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454996/2017-trumps-year-lost-opportunities?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NR%20Daily%20Monday%20through%20Friday%202017-12-29&utm_term=NR5PM%20Actives

    http://tinyurl.com/y832g9r6

    I think any objective observer will find much that is true in it…..Of course, this will not be the case with Trumpites like JJ who can never admit either the truth of how little has been accomplished by their great leader or how wrong their predictions of what would happen have turned out. In fact, I doubt they will even read it….as it is always easier to live with your dreams than face reality.

    One thing it does make clear is how many of the things “Only I” Trump promised—many of which he proclaimed he would do “on my first day in office” never happened and how a major part of the only real accomplishment, the Tax Bill, is the greatest gift to those “Globalists” who Trump and JJ supposedly hated so much in many, many years. In fact, rather than discouraging more investment of funds and jobs in foreign lands the “territorial taxation” provision will actually give even more incentive to them to ignore the US in favor of foreign operations…..And this from the man who promised a 20% tax on such companies to “bring our jobs home again”.

    Some of us can remember how JJ predicted that Trump would descend on Washington, appoint the best possible people to government posts, take on Wall Street and using his skill as “The Great Deal Maker” sit down with The Congress and work out solutions to all of the nation’s problems. Of course, none of that happened….nor is there any reason to believe it will in the future.

    If I had any confidence that he would do more than throw around insults and personal attacks, I might even be interested in how JJ actually sums up Trump’s first year. However, knowing how little insight there will be in any analysis he might make, I won’t waste my time but will leave him blocked.
    P.S. Did you notice that during Trump’s first year the value of the US Dollar has FALLEN to its lowest level since 2003? Thanks Donald……